Is United Professionals Elitist?
Link to article
This is an email conversation between UP member Pamela Allee and UP site editor Diane Alexander:
Pamela writes:
Everyone deserves to earn a good living! Let’s stop the nonsense that people without degrees are less deserving of respect, etc. — so often by those with degrees. Possession of a degree does not necessarily indicate anything more than privilege.
I do agree with your site – up to a point. I think it is also very important to caution disgruntled members of the professional class against taking it out on those of us who are “merely” support staff. I’m speaking from 55 years of working experience, mainly in two fields (medical laboratory and marine engineering).
Diane writes:
Dear Pamela,
Thanks for your comments — I agree with you. But I hope that our site does not imply that people without college degrees are less worthy of respect or the opportunity to earn a decent living.
The idea for United Professionals, as you may have read on the site, came after Barbara Ehrenreich wrote “Bait and Switch: the (Futile) Pursuit of the American Dream.” She was overwhelmed by how many people she met on her book tours who had similar experiences with layoffs, age discrimination, and many other obstacles in trying to find work in their fields.
Before that, Barbara wrote “Nickel and Dimed,” where she went undercover to expose the futility of trying to get by on entry-level pay as a aid, Walmart worker, and waitress. I know that Barbara and UP’s entire board of directors are ardent advocates for a living wage and dignity for workers of whatever kind.
I understand that the terms “white collar” and “professional” can be seen as elitist, though in fact UP has members from all different income, job, and education levels. One fellow I’ve corresponded with asked if, as a truck driver, he could be a member of UP. I told him that he is a professional — a professional truck driver — and that UP doesn’t care what color anybody’s collar is. Our emphasis is really more on the endangered middle class than on white, blue, or pink collars.
I’d love to have you write your thoughts into a blog piece.
Pamela writes:
Hi Diane — Thank you for replying (and so quickly). I totally agree with the intro on your page, and yet I responded to a nerve that has grown ever more tender over my working life. I don’t know how much is “just me” and how much is “the times,” but I’m ever more aware (and resentful) of class distinctions based chiefly upon education.
I blush to realize that I’ve been resorting to classic scapegoating and muddling of related issues. My frustration is probably exacerbated by the continuous disregard for the public exhibited by our (degreed) public servants (sic), from the smallest town hall to Congress.
Thanks again, and I hope UP contributes to some much-needed social equality along the lines of an America that needs to be. (Langston Hughes said it best.)
Diane writes:
Hi Pam — I also feel somewhat uncomfortable with the terms “white collar” and “professional.” But there are lots of white-collar people who didn’t go to college, and plenty of college graduates who have working-class jobs.
I would love your perspective to be heard on the UP site. I bet you’re not the only one who feels that way.
Pamela writes:
All honest labor is skilled labor, and as such, deserves respect: both self respect and the respect of others. I very much object to ranking work as “peonage” or feeling that one’s job is somehow”beneath” one, simply because this mindset seems always to bleed over to condescension or worse.
The absence or presence of higher education is a crap shoot as far as predicting actual ability. It is becoming more of an indicator of privilege than anything else, unfortunately.
All of us — especially, I suspect, people who read and write for UP — can come up with an “in a better world” list around education, among other things.
That better world can start now, in the workplace, if we each begin to acknowledge what I began with: All honest labor is skilled labor and deserves respect. I know this is a bit simple, but I think it’s a very good place to begin questioning one’s own responsibility in the general scheme of things.
Pamela and Diane would like to hear other people’s comments on this subject.
Tags: Bait-and-Switch, Barbara-Ehrenreich, class distinctions, endangered middle class, Nickel and Dimed, professional workers
June 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I found this discussion to be very interesting. It just goes to show us how “loaded” some words can be and how wonderful it can be to have people engage in civil but spirited debate. It has never occurred to me that the Certified Nurses Aides (for example) that I help with a writing course are any less “professional” than I am, or any less deserving of a living wage. It’s sad to think, but I believe the lack of respect in our country extends beyond frustrated college grads to the experienced journeyman and talented craftswoman. As a society we do not seem to value the time, energy and sacrifice that people put into their professional development–whether it be in classroom hours or time spent “in the trenches”.
June 29th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Others may write of the America that needs to be. I want to say a few words about the America (and world) that is right now, and the effect it’s already having to leveling the class distinctions between the degreed and the non-degreed workforce.
I happen to hold a doctorate. Okay, I don’t “happen” to have that degree. I worked damn hard for it. I had to learn a lot about my field’s soft science, hard science, the professionalism necessary for conducting scientific research in the subject, and how to share learning with others to enrich their understanding and the well-being of society in general. All that university schooling ended 20 years ago, and I have learned a lot more during those years — none of which came from formal schooling. I became a guru of sorts in that time, but most of my peer gurus took a different path than I did. Why? Because “the times they are a-changin’” … AGAIN!
All my subsequent learning was driven by the same forces that have driven the lifelong-learning required of nearly every worker in every type of job — changes in technology, in communications, and in my customer base. While updating my knowledge and skills, I learned a lot from people half my age, with “only” a GED, who had focused their considerable intelligence on the latest whatever-it-was that I had to learn about and then use skillfully. They were kind and challenging, and I let them know I appreciated them.
All the assumptions about the “prestige” of formal schooling that worked in the old days are out the window now. Can certain teachers still sharpen your thinking skills to a fine edge? Sure! But I no longer assume they’re only the Jesuits who taught me at the Master’s degree level. They can be the tattoed and pierced GED-holding kids who challenge my creativity to find new uses for some techno-toy they invented.
As to those highly-degreed snobs who demean the “support staff” and dismiss the underlings’ suggestions, don’t take their guff personally. In fact, don’t take it at all. Whether they’re doctors or business executives, the days of those dinosaurs are numbered. Take your idea one level (or two)up on the workplace hierarchy, wherever you can find a more open-minded person in authority. The water-cooler gang will know who those people are.
Let your little light shine! Nobody can turn it off unless you let them.
June 30th, 2009 at 6:38 am
When I first heard that UP was founded to represent middle-class white-collar professionals, I knew it would face a messaging problem. Before then, workers were represented by unions, the poor by charities, and the wealthy by conservative think-tanks. Nobody seemed to speak for the people in between.
This was also at a point when the popular assumption, that a degree gave one a chance to stay out of poverty, was beginning to shatter. The American Dream was proving to be just that – a dream, even for those who thought they bought a chance to make it.
That is why UP must remain focused on its mission to rebuild the middle class by making sure everyone has a chance to build a future for themselves and their families through access to higher education, better pensions, better health care, and stronger communities. UP is in solidarity with organizations that represent workers in all income brackets, but is focused on the middle.
The existence of a middle class represents a strong society. It means the money that enters the economy through wages stays there for awhile, buying homes, cars and vacations, and enriching more than just the original earners. Our corporate class would rather not have a middle, because it is an inefficient way of funneling money back to the top.
If we have failed to replace the old-fashioned class-based language with something more equitable, we can fix that. Workers in all brackets really are in this together. Most owners are definitely not.
June 30th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
It’s time to think about the actual meaning of that white collar.
Back in the days when we had a working class, that collar meant that you were one of the lucky elite who did not have to get their hands dirty.
Your plumber may have made twice the money, but there was no way that he wore a white shirt – except maybe to church.
That white collar meant “prestige”. And most people were willing to make less money in return for the ego boost and for the chance that after a few years they might make as much money as their plumber without haveing to get their hands dirty.
Once enough people bought off on the white collar myth, the working man was SOL.
June 30th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
I’m an IT professional, yet I have always considered myself working class.
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:43 pm
I’ve been “blue collar” all my life, a Union member (2 Unions, actually) for a good deal of that time, and I’m as unemployed as the “white collar” or “pink collar” or “no collar” people who are without jobs.
The ones who are lucky enough to still have a gig, hang on to it as long as you can. I’ve been out of work for over a year…..longest period of no work since I entered the workforce in 1970.
I’m truly scared, and not just for me, but for everyone who thought their future was secure and retirement was a piece of the American Pie. If I can find a gig, I’m gonna hang on to it until i die. I got bills to pay.
Elitist? No! Elitists are the ones who close down the factories that keep the towns alive and the banks open and the waitresses serving pancakes and coffee and send the jobs to some foreign country where they can get their car doors made for $1.50 a day and don’t have to pay any corporate income taxes or medical and retirement benefits. Y’all like the Caymans and Abu Dhabi so damn much, carry your asses on over there and don’t bother coming back. You’ve done your damage and collected your fortunes. You don’t need your souls, you never used them anyway.
“If I get my hand on a dollar again, I’m gonna hold on to it till the eagle grins.”
This ain’t the country I was brought up to believe in. Thank you, gubner shrub and all your fat cat holier than me buddies.
There’s a special spot in the ninth ring of Hell for you.
But, we’ll get better. It’s our turn, now.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:28 am
I’m so glad we’re having this discussion. Most of my writing and activism over the last decade has been about more blue collar issues, like the living wage campaign. So UP was a bit of a departure for me, growing out of my awareness, in the mid-2000s, that more and more white collar people were falling into the category of the working poor. I think our original assumption was that THEY were kind of elitist and needed to have their “professionalism” recognized and appealed to. But these comments suggest that that assumption may be dated: Maybe people of all collar colors and educational levels have been sufficiently battered by this economy that the distinction just doesn’t matter so much any more. This is what I sensed in the Ft Wayne organizing UP director Tom Lewandowski is up to, and which I wrote about recently on this site. He calls his group the “Unemployed and Anxiously Employed Workers of Allen County,” which is a god-awful mouth-full, and they range from foundry workers to school teachers. If we’re not “UP,” what should be — an organization for everyone who’s being kicked around, tossed away and trampled on?
July 5th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
I don’t think that “United Professionals” is problematic, in any way other than perhaps that it’s rather generic.
“White-collar” is loaded with historical and social context, on the other hand. When I came to the site, I gave it the benefit of the doubt, and treated it to mean something along the lines of “the generally unprotected middle-class/would-be middle-class.”
July 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
UP’s elitist? Of course… just like the billionaires funding the GOP’s war on the middle class are salt of the earth.
Look back at US history, and you’ll see that strong union membership- at all levels of society- was absolutely critical in the development of the strongest middle class in world history, and that the GOP’s war on unions was a major key in their war on the middle class itself.
UP has a critical role to play in returning unions to their utterly necessary role in our economy. How is this elitist?
-Z
July 5th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
We share a common goal – a common foe!
Backward in time we go — to full service gas pumps!
First they eliminated the gas station attendants!
(to pass the savings up to the elite director class)
July 5th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Now that millions of people have to do work with no connection to their education, experience and former income, the old categories are meaningless.
I’d love for us to limit the labels to “working people” (meaning all who must work to survive) and “the independently wealthy” (including those who hold jobs but could live comfortably without them).
July 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
I’ve worked as a laborer, as a janitor, as a brick mason, as a claims manager in an insurance company, as an IT pro, and as a writer and editor. The term “professional” can apply to any of these, because it encompasses human as well as technical qualities. If we had better recognized that fact on Wall St. (where I last worked), why we might not be the dismal position we’re in now, would we?
The old Taoist proverb is “the master potter leaves no trace.” This is the mark of the pro, who does the work for its own sake rather than to gain fame, glory, recognition, honor, or even money. These tend to follow the one who makes quality the touchstone of effort. The pro gets “in the zone” where there is no mind for attainment; there is only the task. I have seen the difference in everything from the quality of a trench dug for a retaining wall to an array of code for a web-based application to a boardroom presentation.
If one of the lessons of this current unpleasantness is that title and privilege create only isolation and incompetence; that a hierarchy is a monument made out of shadows; then it may all have been worth the pain. For then we will have discovered again what a professional is, and that the mark of the pro cuts across every line of occupational class and cultural rank.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
For the record, I am an underemplyed Ph.D. in Anthropology. That plus five bucks will get a cup of coffee; ten bucks at Starbucks if you are lucky. Now to the spiel.
It seem to me the time is well past to srgue who or who isn’t elitist. We’re all on the same boat: the Economic Titanic. Let’s stop the squabling over the rearrangement of the deck chairs and concentrate on the iceberg.
The only relevant question is what do we do about this disaster? How do we retool or create an economy that has one, and only one, legitimate purpose: the provision of goods and services for everyone on this planet?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Perhaps there’s more room for agreement in terms of the future. A better America would provide everyone, certainly every working person, with health care and a decent pension, regardless of their job or income. In the next few years, as we realize that the economy of the last two decades can not be sustained, I believe that we also come to see that we, collectively, need to take steps to ensure that everyone has decent housing and the means to get around. Leaving it to the market will be seen as insufficient.
Within the working world, I believe that many of current differences in pay are overstated and unfair. We need to recognize that everyone in an organization contributes and deserves respect. Paying a few high flyers vast sums while forcing support staff to eke out a living is not the pattern we should want for America.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Great Discussion: I am an artist and a writer, and although I have several degrees, my group is often percieved to be on a sort of life long party, and thus not deserving of a decent wage as if working in the insurance industry (or defense) were more productive. A colleague in graduate school—a very good painter, actually—once told us that all of our problems came from not thinking that we were exchanging our labor for a profit. As it happens, or rather it follows I also belong to that unfortunate group of losers called contingent faculty and disfunctional thought it may be, a union. My point about professionals, however, is that the tenured faculty regards us as inferior and believe in the system which has defined us. And with good cause, because, really, we are their servants who make their second homes and nice cars possible not to mention their continued intellectual growth! So are there tensions and inequities in the professional classes. Yes. Something positive: look at Martha Nussbaum’s list of human capabilities, perhaps we can take advantage of this crisis to rearrange the way we think about who gets what and what people deserve. We are all selling our labor for profit.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I think the discussion is healthy, but I don’t think there was any intent from United Professionals at “elitism” of any kind.
I was raised by a blue collar worker. I am proud of the life Robert H. Goodwin made for our family in an urban ghetto with a formal 6th grade education. His father Moses was a teacher, so that was important to him and he instilled that in me. I am very proud of him: he was a lifelong learner, constantly reading books and subjects (mathematics), not for his promotion but for his own self-improvement and betterment.
My mother Mildred Dean Goodwin had an associates degree in nursing. Their difference in educational attainment didn’t contribute to any difference in their marriage. They were wed 49 years before his demise August 26, 1999.
My mother passed 2 days before Mother’s Day weekend. She inspired me to pursue whatever dreams I had and that “nothing was impossible.”
My educational attainment at a bachelors in Engineering Physics is beyond them, but not an insulator to the dictates of this economy, that I honestly don’t think we thought of the impact of robotic automation and the Internet (this very forum).
We are one collar: American workers. We are in this TOGETHER.
See: http://www.reggiegoodwin.com/index_files/page0004.htm, the essay titled “Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes…Who Watches the Watchmen?”
July 5th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
I graduated , B.S., college decades ago; have worked in industry and been a union member and activist my entire work life, and believe EVERYONE should belong to a union! This whole thing about elitism or non elitism is just another way to divide us, those who work for a living and provide for our families. That argument serves somebody’s interest, but not ours. Remember, that same reasoning was used to argue against feminist activists years ago; am sending your webpage to friends who work at desks, with computers and telephones, and telling them, “quit waiting, get organized”
July 5th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Education is a key component to the level of success anyone achieves…but it does not mean there must be PhD. after your name, or an arm’s length of degrees on your resume. It’s how you use what you know and then transposing that knowledge to what you need to do, to make your life better for you and your family. That can mean an infinite number of career paths, and not something that should be broken down to 2 elements, i.e. blue collar/white collar.
To me, this argument is moot. In my somewhat convoluted reasoning, being elitist implies that you care nothing for those that you consider to be beneath your stature – be it education, social station, work classification, geographic location…the list can go on. This Blog, and in particular United Professionals, does not meet those criteria at all.
Whether you’ve worked hard to get a good education in order to land a white-collar job, or worked hard to learn how to do a particular skill that may be considered a blue collar job, the work involved to attain either, is not something to belittle. Those that take that low road, just shouldn’t be participating in this discussion, or be part of UP.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
A non-college graduate with my own consulting practice since ‘81 in a field (meetings, hospitality) that is seen as glamorous, I joined UP because I thought it would benefit me in many ways. I am a life-long learner, and, as Barbara Sher would say, a ’scanner’, who found college to be too structured for my style. I do not consider those with degrees and “higher” degrees as ‘elitist’ — I just see them as different learners.
As others have said in the comments to this blog, words do have meaning and can be toxic to some. Perceptions can also be toxic to the perceiver and the perceived.
I see UP as an opportunity to have an organization that will help us all find greater meaning and resources in what we do.
It is an organization with huge potential, not yet realized.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
People with college degrees or higher are not necessarily privileged. I have been an underpaid white-collar professional throughout my working life (45 years), and am still underpaid in retirement, even though I have a master’s from Harvard. I’m very good at what I do. It’s that what I do (editing) is not valued very highly in a society that has become dependent on consumerism and high tech. The anti-intellectualism of American culture is one of the factors that has held this country back and prevented necessary social reforms that would assure everyone a better life. Educated people’s work is real work. It’s time to stop calling “elitist” anyone and anything that gives educated people the respect we have worked so hard to earn.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Barbara Ehrenreich and I talked the other day about the question of elitism, brought up by Pamela’s email and several others in the past. UP certainly never intended to be elitist, but the terms “white collar” and “professional” can certainly make many workers feel that they don’t belong to this group.
As someone pointed out earlier, perhaps the term “white collar” is out of date and we need a better way to describe our advocacy for all middle-class workers.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
There is nothing elitist about wanting a level playing field for everyone, but in the twisted Orwellian logic of conartistive Republicanism, we are elitist if we oppose their disingenuous concern for the middle class, just as we are indulging in class warfare if we dare to fight back against their elitism.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
When a fraction of 1% of the people in this country hold one trillion dollars more in assets than the 95% of people “at the bottom,” a statistic I heard some time ago, which may be even worse now, it’s clear there’s really no distinction among all of us “at the bottom.” Whether we’re out of work, working poor, middle class, upper class, whatever term you want to use, we’re all in this together. We are all at risk. (Those terms serve more as a “divide and conquer” strategy, I think.)
The American consumer has held up this economy, and by extension, economies of other countries. Everything has been sucked out of us. Call us “Atlas.” Atlas died when the house of (credit) cards came crashing down. The talking heads say the economy looks as if it will recoup by the end of this year. By the “economy” they mean the casino of Wall Street and investment houses. They definitely do not pay attention to the American consumer—the 95% of us “at the bottom,” where jobs have hemorrhaged for years and houses are being lost.
We live in an oligarchy. There is no “true” democracy anymore. Only money buys power and holds it—huge amounts of money, concentrated mainly in corporate coffers.
William Greider wrote a book entitled The Soul of Capitalism: Opening Paths to a Moral Economy in 2003. I recommend the book. In Chapter 3, “Work Rules,” on p. 60 of the hardback published by Simon and Schuster which I checked out of the library, he begins a section with the following paragraph:
“The master-servant legacy embedded in modern enterprise poses a fundamental question: How can genuine individual freedom ever flourish except for a privileged few—or democracy ever be reconciled with capitalism—so long as the economic system functions along opposite principles, depriving people of rights and responsibilities, even denying their uniqueness as human beings? David Ellerman, an economist with the rare ability to apply moral philosophy to the underlying structure of economic life, has answered the question with an uncompromising argument. This power relationship is inherently illegitimate as a matter of natural law, Ellerman reasons, and is based upon a ‘legalized fraud.’ The ‘fraud’ is the economic pretense that people can be treated as things, as commodities or machines, as lifeless property that lacks the qualities inseparable from the human self, the person’s active deliberation and choices, the personal accountability for one’s actions.”
This concept of the “master-servant” relationship is codified in our system of law. It doesn’t matter whether one is a truck driver, a plumber, a software engineer, a middle manager…anyone who earns a wage is a “servant” according to our law.
In the course of my working life, over a period of 48 years off and on (mainly on, and no end in sight), I’ve worked in positions which gave me a number of different-colored collars to wear. I’ve made and still have friends from all of those colors, so to speak.
When I dropped out of college in the 60s, I went through a crisis during which I decided NOT to define myself by what I do or what I earn “to make a living.” It was a deep enough crisis that the decision itself was very deep, and it’s held with me every since. The only reason I got my degree later was out of financial necessity, after my husband died and I had a daughter to support. I got a degree in computer and information sciences. I earned good money (“gold-collar worker” according to Tom Peters), but I was no different from what I ever was.
I see no difference in any of us. We are NOT what we do to earn money, and we are not better or worse because of the amount we earn (or do not earn).
I wish I could make suggestions as to what we can do—William Greider has some positive points in that book, especially when he writes about worker-owned companies. (I haven’t finished the book; I think there’s a lot more there.)
July 5th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
I am a degreed professional and I take exception to the thought that a “Degree” is a indicator of “Privelege” or “Elitism”. I agree that some degreed professionals wear their asses on their shoulders far too often (I worked with a few “Resume Reciters” in my time.). I worked very hard and long to earn both my BS and MBA degrees, along with the three technical certifications I hold. I had to work odd jobs and take out loans in order to be able to afford my education. Yet my efforts seem to be wasted in a culture that appreciates book smarts less and less and appreciates streets smarts more and more. Or appreciatges cheaply purchased foreign labor above all other considerations (like Life Experience, Maturity, EEO and Affirmative Action programs, and overall American Economic prosperity).
In my opinion, America’s Educational System is bloated (over-priced) and inefficient (time consuming), and costly to the consumer in both time and money! It is for this reason that a veritable army of technicians (technically trained workers -> not scientists) have invaded America from China and India. Their technical degree programs don’t require the years of additional breadth requirements in Sociology, History, Ethics, Philosophy, Antropology, Political Sciences, Economics, etc.. as is required in most American Universities! Their cost burdens are far less than an American students costs. They can afford to work for far less.
Hence the difference – foreign degrees can be earned quicker and with much more technical content that is directly applicable to the student’s degree emphasis! For example, an Indian IT student can focus on Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, or Apple technologies as part of his or her degree program, while an American will have spent 2 of his or her 4 years burdened with the cost of having to take unrelated breadth requirements and will be lucky to get a general core of applicable technical studies.
Elitist or Non-Elitist…. Degreed or Nondegreed Who Cares! You miss the point! AMERICA – Our workplaces are being TAKEN OVER by foreign workers that earn far less and have few worker rights than does a US citizen. American corporations and their corporate boards are the ONLY TRUE Elitists that MUST BE Dismantled for the sake of American workers and small to medium-sized businesses.
I have personally witnessed Divide and Conquer strategies used in my workplace by managers against workers. If American workers get mired in this crap of “Elitism” then we deserve to have our jobs go to foreigners. We’re obviously too immature and too short-sighted to see that an Iron Worker builds what an Architect imagines. Both types of workers are necessary to our economic survival!
July 5th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Interesting. Suggest reading Kipling’s IF once a month. Works for me.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I have known Ph.D.’s with little common sense and who ever demonstrated surprisingly little evidence of their education. I’ve also known well educated and intelligent people without even a high-school diploma (in the early 1900’s, even a high-school diploma was an indication of significant privilege).
Still, in this era and in the U.S.A., for an adult the lack of a college degree suggests a lack of either intelligence or motivation. It’s not necessarily so, but there is some justification for this as a first impression.
This being said, there are a great many (probably most) jobs that do not require a college degree and from a purely practical point of view, earning one may seem a waste of time and money. From a standpoint of borrowing great sums of money to attend college, the justification may be difficult.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Hello, I’m not sure I understand the original comment. I understand UP to be an organization that supports professionals. Like other unions that support certain trades, UP supports those who do not necessarily have a union to go to and who are professionals.
Pamela writes, “Possession of a degree does not necessarily indicate anything more than privilege.”.
Really??? – And I thought people went to college to acquire know-how
A professional degree can open up doors, e.g. if you have a medical degree you are allowed to practice medicine. A person with a medical degree is more deserving of practicing medicine than a person without one.
Going to college means giving up a lot of immediate gratification for a chance for something better in the future. College graduates are better prepared for certain tasks, and will often be preferred when an employer is looking to fill a professional position.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
My own take on the “middle” class thing is that there no longer IS a middle class. You are either in the ruling class or you are in the ruled class. Working class, middle class, white collar, blue collar, all the same. The only difference that matters is that you work for your paycheck or live off someone else’s. And by that I do not mean welfare as we commonly think of it. I mean unearned income like the real elite, the 1% who own this world.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
The very fact that elitism is being discussed here demonstrates that there is no elitism. I would ask the following additional questions:
Is UP unduely biased to any and all populist causes?
Is UP properly focused?
Is UP talking UP to the Obama administration?
July 5th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
‘Labor Creates All Wealth’ has become my motto. I am in total agree with Paul A. above regarding the distinction between the ruling class and the ruled class. There is a dialectic process occuring which in the end may be an absolute good. Bringing the ‘ruled’ together, whether white, blue, pink or green collar, in solidarity. We need to remember that there is no true politics without conflict…and the conflict is between those of us who work for a living and those who control the banks, the media, wallstreet…..in a word, CAPITAL. We of the so called ‘professional’ class need to remember who our true allies are….and they aint on Wallstreet. We ‘professionals’ need to vocally support working peoples’ causes; easier unionization, increased wages, improved working conditions, universal single payer healthcare, reduction in military spending, excellent eduation for all, economic democracy etc etc.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
I am sure that Barbara Ehrenreich never intended to be elitist. Keep in mind that for every poster there are probably more readers that never post. As with any other lobbying group or political group, unless the heavy had of the censor is applied, we will all read something that we may not like nor agree with.
I used to work for a company that was very degree conscious. I myself have a B.A. But keep in mind that it is largely people with advanced degrees that created the economic mess that we now have. It has been my observation that those with or without degrees use the same cart to move their belongings form their desk to their car on layoff day.
I have not been on the website for a long time. I can take people with an elitist attitude if they have dome something to warrant it. But I read a lot of whining. People who expect someone to help them find a job. Of course the reason why the books have been written and the organization exists is because jobs for Americans are coming to an end, unless someone does something. The un-degreed union organizers of the 1920’s had a good record of action compared to the degreed whiners of the 1990’s and later. They unquestionably bought into the global economy and vapor ware, shipping those dirty manufacturing jobs to other countries.
In short, I am not sure if labeling people who belong to United Professionals as elitist is accurate, but thus far no one has been able to get them to do anything useful to alleviate the problem of un-employment. I am not faulting Barbara Ehrenreich , I think she tries. Her books contain a lot of good information, but she cannot act on it all by herself.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
It’s interesting how easily we can become embroiled over semantics: white collar, blue collar, pink collar. Here’s a thought: Quit squandering our limited time arguing over the meaning of the words and start focusing on the SPIRIT of the concept—American jobs are disappearing fast—respect for the very people who put this country on top of the world is disappearing fast.
Our problems started at home (right here in the U.S.) and they can only be resolved if we take action to put American corporations and the American government on notice that enough is enough.
It doesn’t matter what you do for a living. Most of us simply want to be able to support our families, live our lives peacefully, and contribute our time on this planet to something more than our narrow environment. Profits? The profits are in the thank you; the kind word; the willingness to just let you try a job you may have to grow into. I’ve spent much of my adult life trying to help others find and expand themselves. Over the past forty years I’ve been repaid with tens of thousands of thanks and smiles and sheer joyful moments—not cash. Cash was merely a means to pay the bills and to buy more books to build the brain.
My recommendations are these: That we all begin to focus on empowering one another—no matter what color the collar (or even the existence of a collar). If we want to revive the American dream then WE need to wake America up and make the changes that leadership is too greedy to make. If a given company builds all its toys outside the U.S., why are you still buying their toys. If a service or product is made right here in town or in your state, why aren’t you purchasing from them? Vote with your wallet. Speak up with your mouth and your written words. DO something to make a difference—complaining is NOT going to work. Take action.
What am I doing to deliver on this promise? I’m working with a group that is trying to save a VERY good, but very small, private school from oblivion. These folks have less than a month to keep their school from closing due to lack of support funding. The teacher/student ratio is 1 to 3 and 6 instead of the standard public school 1 to 35+. Now THAT school is something worth fighting to keep alive in America.
Here’s how it’s done: Want help? I’ll provide you all advice I can provide. You do the same for someone else. THAT is how America came to be. We help one another and everyone pitches in.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
I am a prooud product of a blue collar family who was fortunate enough (with scholarships and my own work) to go to college, earn a degree and get some good paying jobs. I have found that a professional is one who is able to demonstrate what they can do. Those who just flaunt degrees are trying to be something they may not be. By the eay, I have a doctorate but don’t use the title in my professional life.
I also agree that ALL labor is valuable, and all labor contributes to what we are as a nation and what we can become. So, let’s roll up our sleeves and get to work! Let’s show our “leaders” in DC that we aren’t going to just take whatever they dish out. In other words, let’s be a union like unions used to be!
July 5th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
By definition, the word “professional” certainly could be considered “elitist.” Look at definitions #4 and #10 at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/professional
In my opinion, United Professionals is a special interest group. It was formed to bring the plight of people like me to the attention of policymakers.
I have a college degree and two Master’s degrees. When you have that much education, you’re a professional! Am I “elitist” just because I have so much education?
When my job as a medical writer was outsourced overseas, I was unemployed and underemployed for 3.5 years. I finally gave up looking for a job and tried self-employment. But starting a profitable business isn’t easy either! As I wrote on my blog, I have been struggling to re-join the middle-class for five years now. I still haven’t made it.
As Barbara Ehrenreich pointed out, when she went on book tours for Bait and Switch, she met many people just like me. She must have started UP because she felt there was no advocacy group for people who were kicked out of the middle class – sometimes through no fault of their own – and were desperately trying to claw their way back.
So what’s wrong with being a special interest group for unemployed and underemployed professionals? Many “blue collar” workers have a special interest group that represents their interests – it’s called a union. And some are really big unions, like United Auto Workers. What did “white collar” workers have? Absolutely nothing – until UP came along!
So if you think UP is “elitist,” don’t join!
Ruth M. Shipley, MS, MLIS (a UP member)
July 5th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Having spent a dozen years unloading Greyhound buses between college and graduate school I find that one thing lacking for professionals is a genuine advocacy organization; something akin to a union. Since, compared to corporate America, we don’t amount to much by ourselves, we need to be organized in some meaningful way. I see UP as having the potential to be that organization. Not only do I not see it as elitist, I’d love to see it working with and learning from America’s unions.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
This site is not elitist. Barbara answered this question once very well in an interview on CNN. This country values likability over ability. I have a very close friend, he has not finished high school, and the jobs he takes are appropriate for that education, he doesn’t complain. However, he was also diagnosed with paranoid schitzophrenia, which makes him someone who doesn’t exchange pleasantries, he doesn’t bond with people. He just comes to work, gets his job done, and goes home. However, he can’t keep a job because he isn’t considered a “team player” and never fits in the “culture”, always with a boss who will say something like, I just wish you would fit in more because you really are a good worker. I think that the spirit of UP is really that, it is just that it doesn’t end there.
I moved to Minnesota from NYC a couple of years back. Advanced degree, great work done, awesome references, 20 years of experience but was fired from my first job for hurting someone’s feelings because I explained to HIM why I wasn’t using his idea “too directly”. My replacement was a cute little girl just out of her bachelor’s degree, but totally Minnesota nice. (before that, the last time I was chastized for hurting someone’s feelings, I was in kindergarten).
There are so many people who are missing the point about “work” in this country. It is for people who do their jobs well. Period. It is not for the most popular kids, the homecoming queen, or the beautiful people. I am not suggesting that we should make work miserable, but we should understand that the judgement of work is not related to the work anymore.
We are not elitists. We are people who are good at what we do, whatever we do, as a professional, and, while it may seem like whining to some people, sometimes it is just nice to have someone with the same challenges you do.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
I’d like to disagree, sort of, with almost everything everyone has posted here. I think there are two questions: Is United Professionals elitist? And is “United Professionals” — the name — elitist?
As to the former, it seems to me that most of the respondents correctly understand that regardless of your education and other pedigrees, if you have to work for a living, or depend on someone who does, you’re politically and economically in the working class. Some of you seem to think you got something of value out of your educations, others not, but I think most of you recognize that a major function of the educational system is not to inform and train people, but to act as a class filter. So it seems to me that United Professionals is not particularly elitist.
However, the term “professional” is precisely an elitist term. I don’t know its full history, but I know that, say, sixty or seventy years ago being a “professional” meant having one or more degrees and usually belonging to a professional society not necessarily open to all comers — people might be excluded on the basis of credentials, caste, race, sex, and so on. We are talking about doctors, lawyers, engineers, academics and so forth. There was no doubt that such people were a part of the bourgeoisie, although not its top layer. Their credentials were virtually a license to have a job, to make money.
Beginning I guess in mid-century, the nature of work began to change: advancing technology meant that more and more people were needed as office workers and technologists, and fewer and fewer to do traditional working-class jobs.
Owners and managers naturally wanted to bourgeoisify this new work force so that they could exert control over it. One way to do this was to extend the ideology of “professionalism” to cover what, up until then, had not been considered professions. I particularly know this because I was a computer programmer during this period and was on the receiving end of the propaganda. For example, one was made to wear a suit although wearing a suit has nothing to do with the work, and one was encouraged to apply for and obtain meaningless pseudo-credentials and memberships in professional organizations. Yet most computer programmers actually operate at about the same intellectual level as auto mechanics or plumbers — highly skilled workers with a talent for efficiently performing certain complex tasks which are mostly prescribed in advance, although a certain amount of local ingenuity is required. In short, the term “professional” was lifted from traditional bourgeois culture and extended over millions of people in order to control the way they thought about their work, without, of course, extending the protections, the privileges, or the social status.
Unfortunately, this effort seems to have largely succeeded. A person who runs an X-ray machine or shuffles papers in an insurance office often now thinks of herself or himself as a “professional”, that is, someone who is not in the working class but somehow part of those who run the system — someone who would never think of joining a union. The crying need of such people for organization which is precisely what United Professionals is seeking to meet has in large part been created by the word “professional” and all that it is attached to.
That’s my rant for the moment. I don’t have a nifty solution to this ironic puzzle.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
I have to admit that I have not been faithful to UP due to having a fulltime job plus caregiving for my 80 year-old mother and trying to obtain certification as a Veterinary Assistant. I left a well-paying job (for someone without a college degree) to work in an animal hospital for three-quarters of what I was earning before. Two weeks ago, just after I signed up at our local college to finish my clinicals to get to certification, I was summarily terminated. There is, of course, more to it than that, but when all is said and done, I was terminated wrongfully and will be pursuing a remedy.
When I signed up for UP (lol – I love alliteration), I did not think of it as an elitist organization. Perhaps this was due to the fact that I am a big fan of what Barbara has been trying to do all along and have read both “Nickel and Dimed” and “Bait and Switch” and I understand what she is trying to do. But I do see a point to be made that people might conclude that it could be an elitist organization if they do not read the mission statement. However, the only other choices I see are The Invisible Collar or The Transparent Collar and frankly, those take more of a definition! Maybe there needs to be more publicity. United Professionals needs to become more of a household name like United Auto Workers.
Regarding Paul Archibald’s point of no middle class, are we the new Great Britain? There used to be no middle class in England back in the ’60s. Have we gone the other way? Will we soon be seeing India’s caste system taking over our social structure? Every time I see an article about recession proofing your way of life, I think, “Yeah, get your cardboard box situated under the nicest bridge…”
I do have another point to make regarding higher education as well: If you look into the history of college education, it did not become the mode du jour until about the 1960s when the draft was instigated for Vietnam “…during the Vietnam War era, it provided an additional consumption aspect since it allowed some young men to avoid or delay being drafted into the military, with its assorted potential unpleasantries, from loss of freedom to the loss of life. At any given time between 1967 and 1970, there were about 1.7 to 1.9 million male college students who were on deferment— putting off their obligatory military service while they were enrolled in school.” (http://wps.aw.com/aw_ehrensmith_mlaborecon_8/0,6568,286513-,00.html)
There were other reasons that put postseondary eduation into motion around that time — the fact that after the war ended, young men were coming home and flooding the job market, so “…it was not until 1976, fully ten years after the first veterans became eligible, that the highest number of Vietnam-era veterans were enrolled in colleges and universities. By the end of the program, proportionally more Vietnam-era veterans (6.8 million out of 10.3 million eligible) had used their benefits for higher education than any previous generation of veterans.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GI_Bill)
From what I understand (it is here that I am doing a little research and coming up bupkus at the moment, the government went to corporate America and asked them to change their requirements from a high school diploma to a college degree for a number of job openings. And that, folks, is why we see jobs in sales and marketing having requirements of a B.A or B.S.
I have always considered myself a renaissance woman. Or a kindred spirit of Kerouac (without the drugs, alcohol and cigarettes). I see work as work. I read the want ads (craigs list and monster.com nowadays) and see jobs I no doubt would be terrific at if I either had the degree or could convince someone to give me a chance. Maybe it’s because I am a “scanner,” as someone earlier mentioned. I do know that I have a lot to offer and have intentions of finding a way to give it to society while doing it my way (cue the music…). This has been an ongoing interest of mine and since I was a puboished writer at one point, perhaps this would make a good book. If I could find someone to collaborate with… Interested, Barbara??
July 5th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Everyone thinking about The Professional ought to read “Disciplined Minds:A critical look at salaried profesionals and the soul-battering system that shapes their lives” by Jeff Schmidt.This book really opened my eyes to the fact that being a professional means buying into an ideology, and that having a degree/higher education does not mean you really are more qualified than others who learn their work on the job.
Schmidt writes:
“This book shows that professional education is a battle for the very identity of the individual, as is professional employment. It shows how students and working professionals face intense pressure to compromise their ideals and sideline their commitment to work for a better world…People usually don’t think of school and work in terms of such a high-stakes struggle. But if they did, they would be able to explain why so many professional training programs seem more abusive than enlightening, and why so many jobs seem more frustrating than fulfilling…”
The book made me question if I really did need to study for another professional certification because it was what was expected of a professional,or because maybe in a future job this would be a requirement. As others here have said, the ruling class would rather have the rest of us fight eachother than to unite and to change the system.
In his book, Schmidt urges professionals to unite with the non-degreed workers, and resist the indoctrination. But I was not sure what form this ought to take.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Can we stop squabbling over who gets to be in the UP club and get down to business? I want to join UP in the streets, the polling places and Washington to demand fair pay and healthcare for all the hard-working people in this country.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I have a degree, a BFA in Adv’t Design from an well know college, ACCD; however given I wanted to be different, to be recognized as a talented professional, I freelanced and worked and then freelanced, subsidizing my career with jobs that paid my bills.
After having been out of work in my profession over a year I had to take a job where I knew I could get hired, again back to basics as when I freelanced and now that I have been successful in returning to my career, it is the perception of where I began with my company that I am held back financially and professionally within the company using the economy as the reason rather than the perception of where I began in the company.
Perception is key to point of view. Collar or not, elitist or not, change your perception change your point of view, change the world.
I have grown far from the world of perception and am successful within my heart at what I do – not by the collars or hats I wear.
UP is just that United Professionals, united in bringing talented people into a group of their own to be recognized as a group and having worked hard to get where they are.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
I am grateful that there have been comments suggesting that some of the language use is outdated. I would like UP to frame their mission in a way that more accurately describes the milieu in which we currently find ourselves. One of the aspects of this I find most disturbing is the relentless pressure to be in self-promotion mode at all times. I cringe whenever I read advice columnists suggest in all seriousness that we should refine our “personal brand”. (Yet I’ve seen that jargon used on the UP site.) A degree is of very little value if you are not adept at packaging yourself appropriately and yet you still have to be flexible enough to retool and retrain for the next time your particular role is eliminated or outsourced. So go ahead and mark me as U.S. grade A beef, it won’t make a bit of difference if what I can do (as a “professional”) can be performed for a fraction of the cost in Bangalore.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Pamela certainly expressed a high degree of concern. She stated, “Let’s stop the nonsense that people without degrees are less deserving of respect” and “I think it is also very important to caution disgruntled members of the professional class against taking it out on those of us who are “merely” support staff.” A few examples please?
As far as I’m concerned, this is a time wasting discussion. Has UP ever in any way discriminated against or made unwelcome those who do not hold college degrees? Unless Pamela can come up with a few examples of unequal treatment, I think there are far better things to discuss like the economic tsunami that has engulfed the working class (and by that, I mean anyone who works for a living, regardless of educational background). The trade agreements have destroyed our country’s economic foundation by making every American compete with workers who are paid a fraction of what is a living wage in this country. This simply cannot continue or we will experience complete economic collapse (and we may be in the midst of that right now).
Now that we have lost the ability to produce our own goods, China, by far the biggest winner in this economic free market reshuffle, no longer needs the U.S. to consume its products. It is forcibly expanding its markets into other countries, most notably in African countries where China is busy nailing down access to their raw materials. Local African businesses and human rights are the casualties.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/world/africa/21zambia.html?_r=2&oref=slogin
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1063198/PETER-HITCHENS-How-China-created-new-slave-empire-Africa.html
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/05/bling-dynasty-enter-dragon
Our government leaders are doing little while every week over half a million Americans lose their jobs, lose their access to proper medical treatment, sometimes lose their homes, and very often lose their confidence in their ability to earn a living in this country. So pardon me if I don’t give a rat’s you-know-what if someone’s feelings are hurt. There are far more important discussions to have, like how to make the politicians of both parties behave as if they actually cared about the people and country they purport to represent instead of acting like bought-and-paid-for employees of multinationals.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:14 am
Also interesting discussion. Understand Pam’s views but disagree UP elitist – read Barbara’s book. I grew up working class, union parents, got degree, dropped out of grad school. Husband graduate of Ivy and Ivy professional school. We live on my office support salary + his Social Security. Neither ever thought “better” – just maybe luckier – than working people. But the village where I live outside Dayton did do an economic study where they stated bluntly that the village was well-to-do (THEN!) because high level of education as though two causally related. They’re not. I know ardent supporters of living wage/workers’ rights in Ithaca, a big college town – someone there (with degrees) told me, “in Ithaca you can have a PhD yet choose to fix cars or grow food.” True. I’ve felt more put down by job category or income than education or gender. “You’re JUST an office assistant?Transcriptionist? Word processor?”
July 6th, 2009 at 6:37 am
Jacqueline has a good point when she writes that “It’s that what I do (editing) is not valued very highly in a society that has become dependent on consumerism and high tech. The anti-intellectualism of American culture is one of the factors that has held this country back and prevented necessary social reforms that would assure everyone a better life.”
Our culture’s anti-intellectualism was stoked by the far-Right, as well as a historical American distrust of “eggheads” that “don’t have enough sense to come in out of the rain.” We are now paying the price for this. As Carl Sagan once perceptively wrote,
“We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.”
“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”
American anti-intellectualism is a cancer on our democracy. This country was founded on the idea of informed, well-educated voters. Without that, we have an easily manipulated flock of sheep.
I was a Union worker and steward for over 20 years for one company. After career-ending injuries, I went back to college and got my BS degree (tech writer/editor) on my own dime. (Of course, my ex-employer neither helped me nor cared what happened to me. I had to sue them to get anything at all. After my medical expenses and legal fees, I got $5000. Wow. Just…wow. I got rich from Worker’s Comp. NOT. /snark So much for loyalty to an employer. I’m a mercenary now.)
Yes, I make more than I did as a blue-collar” worker. I’m supposedly a “white-collar” worker, but I’m still treated like a “blue collar” worker by the customer. (I work as an employee of a “Beltway Bandit” for the government.) So, it’s not what degree or work you have,
IMHO, the two classifications are obsolete. Words indeed shape our thoughts, which in turn shape reality. The time is past for the working people of the country to take control of the discussion. A plumber is as much a “professional” as a medical doctor or an airline pilot. I think of UP as a “special-interest group” for the average, educated worker, though it’s sad that we have to consider the average worker as some sort of “special interest” group to get any attention from lawmakers. “Educated worker” as I use the term means anyone that has education in their profession, whether it’s through school, an internship, an apprenticeship, etc. They are all equally valid in my eyes.
A Master plumber or electrician can do things with their skills that I can’t even dream of – and they should get the respect and pay due to them for that skill, education and experience.
There certainly is a class war in the US – and we’re losing. Our myth that we have an egalitarian society has been stoked by the upper classes to make sure the rest of us didn’t look too hard at reality. The reality of our society was revealed in the 1800’s with the Robber Barons and temporarily defeated by Teddy Roosevelt and his cousin, Franklin. Now it’s back, worse than ever becasue it’s now aided by modern media and marketing.
We have all been played for fools and we have to put a stop to it and make our voices heard through UP before it’s too late.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:35 am
We seem to have a lot of agreement here that everyone’s work is worthy of respect and adequate remuneration and that the only class division that really matters anymore is between the very rich and the rest of us. So there should be plenty of room for an organization that draws on both the formally educated (certified etc) and all those who take their craft seriously, whatever it is.
I particularly like Brian’s insights into the Tao of work. I’ve experienced that sense of competence and self-loss doing manual labor AND doing writing or researching. All are hard; all take skill and full concentration. And of course all are undervalued by the people who write the checks.
Can I suggest two areas for immediate action on behalf of all of workers (white collar or blue collar, laid off or not)? One, we’ve got to weigh in on the debate about health reform. The great majority of Americans want either single payer or an Obama-type public option, but the bloodsuckers who run the private insurance companies don’t. Are they going to prevail or are we?
The other is unemployment insurance, which is scandalously inadequate — covering, for example, only a minority of people who’ve been laid off. In addition, millions will see their benefits run out this fall. The “other side” in this case are the employers who are raising the alarm that UI is becoming a new “welfare program.” Well, with 9.5% unemployment, why not? How are people supposed to feed their kids anyway?
The least we can do is issue another press release or two. But I really think we have to harass our congresspeople and maybe do some old-fashioned on-the-ground organizing, such as what the Unemployed and Anxiously Employed Workers of Allen County (IN) is doing.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:48 am
After reading the various responses I think most of us are on the same page. I’ve known many experienced professionals without a degree and a few degreed employees who were anything BUT professional. I worked my way up from the factory floor, earned a degree, and landed in a nice engineering office, so I respect everyone at every level who approaches their work more professionally and less emotionally.
I have to bring up a point that I believe was the catalyst for the more recent rife between the “haves” and “have nots”. The ALMIGHTY, OVER-WORSHIPPED M.B.A. I have never seen another title, reward, certification, or degree undergo as much abuse, over-exhaltation, and loss of real value. If we’ve learned anything in the past 10 years, it’s that a 25-year-old with an MBA does not a Senior Accounting Manager make! And when a company fires its senior professionals with over 25 years of experience and replaces them with 25-to-30-year-old kids with MBA’s, your organization has just experienced a NET LOSS in value, not a net gain!
July 6th, 2009 at 8:55 am
There was a time when one was not accepted into the better MBA programs in this country UNLESS one had a little gray hair and at least 10 years of experience under his/her belt, including entry-level management experience. I think a return to that approach might bring some value back to the MBA, and some respect on the part of the applicants.
The issue now is that so many younger managers have an MBA and not enough experience, yet they really THINK THEY ARE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ORGANIZATION.
July 6th, 2009 at 9:51 am
I think Barbara has the right of it. UP needs to focus on progressive activism going forward on behalf of workers not already having union protections. Even school teachers have a union. The rest of us need something!
Right now, UP should offer our site visitors links to sites where they can email Congresspersons urging them to:
- support the health care plan legislation in front of them.
- create unemployment benefits legislation that increases the weekly amounts to a minimally livable amount, maybe including mortgage/rent support based on each applicant’s demonstration of their existing payment
Down the road, we can consider rebranding UP’s name if that’s still an issue. With any luck and enough loud-mouth activism now, though, we may put ourselves out of business.
We may, along with many others, be able to persuade our federal government to provide us the social protections that other civilized, socialist capitalist nations now enjoy, with exactly the health and economic safety-nets we need. The stress reduction experienced by citizens of such nations greatly improves their overall health. The international health stats over the last decade have proved it; socialist nations’ health measures have risen; the U.S.’s have fallen. Although we spend a greater percent of our GDP on health care than Germany, Switzerland, the UK and Japan (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/etc/graphs.html), yet we have worse quality than those and other “socialized health care” countries in: life expectancy, infant mortality, young-adult mortality, premature death (before age 64) and over-weight. Of course we do score higher than all the others in the category “Percent of people who believe their health care system needs fundamental change.” (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm)
Read. Weep. Then get UP, get active, and lobby our congresspersons to legislate the quality of life for us that our peers in other “rich” nations enjoy.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:36 am
UP isn’t so much “elitist” as airheaded, which is why I normally ignore this site. There have been some quite intelligent posts here, especially “..you are either a member of the ruling class or the ruled class.” and “there is no middle class,” etc.
The fact that this discussion is even taking place, along with Ehrenreich’s suggestion – from time to time – to call our congress critters – is proof positive for the airheaded mental set prevailing.
Our society is presently ruled by this equation:
50,000 foundations + 35,000 lobbyists + 5 media-controlling corporations = our reality.
Ehrenreich actually believes those leading insider traders, the US Congress (save for 4 or 6 exceptions) actually gives a fig about what we think – just ain’t so, guys & gals.
As the economy grows worse and worse, there will be ever more media communications (radio & TV shows, books, articles, etc.) promoting the divide between age groups, gender groups, racial and ethnic groups to attempt to increase the divisiveness in this society (divide & continue to conquer, as they say).
To those who are attempting to be in the know, I’d recommend monetary.org & ied.info – the most knowledgeable economic sites, and trust me, it is unholy and sociopathic greed which is the principle driving force of our problems and quickly sinking quality of life.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:06 am
I agree with Pamela, and found similar issues when I first visited the United Professionals site.
I was excited to find a site that acknowledged the issues surrounding the shrinking middle-class, outsourcing, and lack of resources for the “white collar” class. As a supervisory/management level administrative professional, I *thought* I also fell into this category, and sought like-minded individuals who were ready to address real problems. However, what I found was a lack of solutions facing administrative professionals –a workforce category that often serves as a viable entry into the middle class, and is the most stable.
I also found that comments and “tones” to many of the posted articles failed to address this group, and somehow classified “white collar” as *only* those with advanced degrees. Though Pamela makes an excellent point about advanced degrees, or lack thereof, there are some adminstrative professionals who do have advanced degrees, but they are still relegated to what I call “pink collar” jobs, i.e., jobs that are dominated by women, and are unilaterally underpaid, disrespected and trivialized in the workplace.
Another sore point about UP is that I also found that when I inquired about starting a chapter in my area, there was absolutely no response, or information forwarded. I couldn’t help but think it was due to identifying myself as an administrative professional. I hope that was not the case.
Hopefully, the “white collar” will understand that it’s these elitist distinctions that will probably be the downfall of the American working class, and the American workforce.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Adrienne — as someone with a college degree who has mostly worked at “pink collar” jobs, I understand and empathize with what you’re saying. Pamela’s email to me was not the first along those lines, so I thought it was important to get this subject open for discussion — and the UP board members agreed.
As far as starting a chapter, UP initially had plans to create local chapters, but soon found they didn’t have the resources or organizational strength to do so. If your email to UP was ignored, I apologize. You can email me at diane@unitedprofessionals.org and I promise to answer.
Diane, UP site editor
July 6th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Hi Diane,
What do you think about educating high school kids about the set backs of the college debt and gamble that are many degrees, especially now that many kids go into college without study or work skills.
By diverting kids from college, in cases where the kid is not prepared and the degree has little chance of giving a job, and the cost is high, by diverting the kids away from debt we help out their middle class parents.
What do you all think about this?
Steve
Proud UP member
July 6th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
The primary issue to be addressed by UP to professionals: Wake Up! The same thing that happened to blue collar workers has happened to you … and it’s accelerating.
That could have happened by technology displacing “middle management” jobs or by offshoring jobs or by specific national policy that assures more people than jobs(see “The 9/22/08 Economic Crisis” for links on these issues). The idea: Also, corporations have successfully influenced government to label “professionals” as exempt from overtime law and can strongarm them to work outrageous hours … and prevent them from joining unions.
Retraining is a sick joke: Since 2001 Colorado Springs as of Apr 09 had lost 48% of its manufacturing jobs and 49% of its IT jobs (for which many retrained when they lost their manufacturing jobs).
The only way I can see to prevail in such an environment is to organize. Many, if not most, “professionals” have been convinced that unions are below them and even evil (”unions of capital” in the form of corporations are OK, but not “unions of people” … go figure).
It’s been my hope that UP would have active outreach to all professionals (degreed or not) to help them see what’s happening … and even take to the streets, because that’s the only thing that seems to get attention.
July 6th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Hi Steve — I think it’s a good idea to educate kids about their alternatives. There are several blog posts and “our stories” here on the UP site from people who feel their degrees have not been worth the money or effort. It would be good for teenagers to be aware of these people’s experiences. –Diane
July 6th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Interesting exchange. I think this organization should be fighting for our social and economic rights, including to an adequate standard of living, full social security (not the pathetic unemployment benefits system we have)and realization of the right to health. Using an international human rights framework (the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Social, Economic and Cultural Rights, still awaiting ratification by US Senate for the last 31 years) can help us show that our country is a rights abuser at a time when it is beating up on other states for their rights abuses. I think getting more international pressure on our government could help. Our core challenge is to build internal movements that inpsire more working people to participate and support each other instead of giving up in despair.
July 6th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
As an unemployed “professional” with an advanced degree, I agree with Gordon’s comments above. The U.S. corporate bosses (the true elite) have defined anyone working in an office as a “professional”, “that is, someone who is not in the working class but somehow part of those who run the system — someone who would never think of joining a union.”
I have heard this resistance to unionization from both office cube farm drones like myself and from union organizers who don’t have the imagination to see those cube farms as ripe for organizing.
“United Professionals” makes perfect sense in this context and is most definitely not elitist. My hope is that UP can provide some basis for organizing activity in corporate cube farms.
July 6th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
I joined your organization and went to your website several months ago. Is your organization elitist? Well in one way I think you are. In as much as you think everyone is computer saavy. You have to have and know one code number serial to enter the website, then have and know a different code serial number in order to have acess to the forum! Please keep in mind that us late baby boomers who didn’t grow up with computers, can get very discouraged and frustrated especially when their are technical difficulties with the website!
July 6th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
This discussion is music to my ears. I have been with UP since its inception and have always been concerned that our appeal would be more narrow than we intend.
More specifically, we were worried that far too many “white collar” workers would continue to live in splendid isolation–acting as if they are alone in their concerns and that difficulty on the job, or even finding a job, was best addressed by individual rather than collective action.
This conversation is ample proof that many people are willing to work across categories others have defined for them for a more inclusive good.
Barbara and I visited DC last week with our “tin cups.” Among other things, we learned that broadening our vision gives us a better chance for getting specific projects funded, such as Web site improvement for more effective communication and solicitation of friends and members; better coordination with like-minded organizations for the benefit of our membership; etc.
Any ideas you have about what UP might do to further the cause would be appreciated. They could be added to our fund raising agenda and shared with potential funding sources. Please post your suggestions here and/or send them to diane@unitedprofessionals.org.
This is great reading. Thanks.
Bill Holland
UP Chairman of the Board
July 6th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
My oldest son went to college – he works in the TV industry; my youngest did not – he is an apprentice electrician. I bet anyone would miss my youngest son’s skills a lot more than my oldest son’s (which is the gravy we get when we actually get leisure time). Yet, my oldest son would be considered “white collar” and youngest “blue collar” but I consider them both professionals.
My Mom never went to college but worked for over thirty years in an office setting doing clerical work. I consider her a retired professional–she even was a member of a business woman’s sorority.
I am an IT professional but have unfortunately (but maybe not surprisingly) hit some “down times.” So I’ve had to take some “survival” jobs. I think every one of those jobs deserves respect, but I never got it–even though supervisors and managers knew I had a degree and would be working during the day as a substitute teacher. Yet, the minute I walked through the door again as an IT professional, the respect was there (not to mention the money).
July 6th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Do the wealth concentrating activities of the American uber-elete have a rational goal, or is it just unbridled greed? Is much of the American middle class being downsized into the working class, and the working class into peasantry, for other than ever bigger tallies of super wealth? IOW, are we witnessing the formation of Roman Empire II? An empire like that of Old Rome, where a small number of noble families own vast estates, and own or control the rest of the economy, the government, and a vastly powerful military? Where slaves (aka, foreign workers) do the manual labor, and employment for citizens is largely limited to the military or to the government bureaucracy?
July 6th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Sidney Jolly Says:
“Do the wealth concentrating activities of the American uber-elete have a rational goal, or is it just unbridled greed? Is much of the American middle class being downsized into the working class, and the working class into peasantry, for other than ever bigger tallies of super wealth?”
Going backwards:
2. There is no middle class in the old sense of the word. If you are still thinking about a middle class I don’t think you’ve fully grasped the situation.
1. The accumulation and concentration of wealth and the production of scarcity are necessary to liberal capitalism, because it is the needs generated by these processes that give the ruling class its power — we “need” them to run the show — just as constant war and slavery were necessary to feudal lords and those who ruled the states of antiquity. Whether this goal is rational or not depends on your values. If you value wealth and power — most people do — then the activities of capitalists are perfectly rational. The system as a whole may be irrational, however. As I say, it depends on your values.
If this seems terribly abstract, it does have a few practical implications. One is that if working-class people don’t organize themselves for common defense and mutual aid, they’re inevitably going to be put to the wall. In fact, that’s what’s happening right now, isn’t it?
July 6th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
I think that we should go to Washington, DC some time soon and march or demonstrate for people’s right to choose a public option for health insurance, and invite others to come including the single-payer folk (who might see us a “quitters” or settling for half a loaf).
Then ,on breaks, if we don’t get arrested for not having a permit because we don’t know how to do this, we can discuss, during breaks, all of these important matters of collar colors, class, degrees, and how those of us who have no tribe, no heritage, no roots, just hope, can persevere.
After all, to start something someone has to invite someone, then be there to welcome them. Without that, short of attacking on horseback like invading Huns, nothing happens.
At age 64, I went to a regional Federal Health Summit on St. Patrick’s day in Burlington VT because I was upset that this Federal Health Care Summit (arranged by the White House and only attended by invitation) refused to let physicians and nurses who supported a single payer system come in or speak. After an hour or so of demonstrating they said they had a few seats left but that no one was allowed to speak about single payer. It was more interesting outside so we just continued while a physician and CA Nurses’ Association rep went inside for a while.
It was the first demonstration of my life. I held my handwritten sign (messages on both sides), clapped, sang, chanted, drove home (5 hours).
For me it was a big deal– because I felt so helpless and it was the most that I could do. Over the next week I wrote a book of Health Reform poems, then learned how to hand-make books, and finally made 20 any sent them out last week, wondering if would make any difference. It felt as if I were sinking deeper into helplessness, and that I would seem ridiculous or at best ignored (the latter is always fine with me).
All I know is that there is a lot of talk from Howard Dean and Democracy for America who is pressing for the right for us to choose a public option– but they seem afraid of marching on Washington and having too few people show up so they are attacking insurance-company-owned politicians from both parties using nasty (but true) ads.
Today insurance companies hired 340 ex-politicians and former Congressional staffers spending $1.4 million per day to fight our right to choose a public option. Today, Arizona politicians chose to become the first state that will not allow its citizens to choose a public option. Today, Blue Cross in CT announced that it will raise premiums on individual policies between 23% and 32% in a few months.
I think that if just 340 demonstrators showed up, being paid nothing to match the 340 insiders maybe holding a sign with each name of those making $350 per hour (I’ll be “Dick Armey” after I check the spelling) it wouldn’t be a waste or a failure, but a meaningful act.
We can’t be embarrassed, or afraid, even of feeling more helpless. We can’t be just talking-heads, cyber-heads, just have to try. I have no skills in demonstrating and don’t know what you have to do to legally demonstrate in DC. But that’s o.k., You do. All I have to do is show up, and maybe read some of my poetry and one of my favorite Psalms, a lamentation over a megaphone, or just shout into the wind.
Then when our feet get tired we can take another break, drink coffee, eat cookies, and continue discussing collar-color, class, degrees– and maybe, for the first time-”tribe”, “roots”, not feeling like The Lone Ranger anymore, not beating up on ourselves because we seem to be losing ground.
I have no idea where all this comes from, but your words triggered it. Thanks! Are weekdays or weekends better for demonstrating in DC?
July 6th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Les, that was beautiful. I can’t afford it, but I’ll be there anyway.
July 7th, 2009 at 6:40 am
Thanks, Diane, for the feedback. I’ll go ahead and have some fun and invite Howard Dean to March on Washington, give him some possible dates, and tell him that my poems are on the way. This is all so difficult. It’s hard learning how to be a citizen again. I really wasn’t a very good consumer, but I was so asleep for so long and just assumed that as long as I worked hard and voted, that was enough.
The White House emailed me two weeks ago and asked me (along with millions of others) that we “roll up our sleeves” and do volunteer work, so I told them all the things that I volunteered for but no one knew what to do with my skills. I also told them that I wanted to send them my poems, but that I didn’t want the post office to submerge them in a bucket of water. They assured those of us who used their feedback system that they will respond to our messages. That will be a difficult one to send a pre-set response to. I think that one can do that on whitehouse.gov at anytime.
It seems important to be focused and serious because it is so overwhelming, and yet try to have fun in this process. I’ll let UP know what I hear or don’t hear back. Thanks for the blog dialogue.
July 7th, 2009 at 7:52 am
This spring, UP joined HCAN –http://healthcareforamericanow.org/– and they have some action suggestions on their site.For example, they seem to have a lot of local chapters, which UP members might want to check out.
Personally, I’m a single-payer gal, but I’ll settle for a public option.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:27 am
That question above is too hard unless one majored in math.
Let’s pass single payer healthcare and not waste all this time on blogs.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:54 am
In the spirit of activism, I’m going to our county courthouse 30 miles away to see Sen. Bennet’s representative, who visits my rural area monthly. I’m wearing my Health Care for America Now T-shirt and will make my voice heard. Others of my ilk will be attending also.
Along with Barbara, I urge everyone to join HCAN (it’s free) — they are sponsoring rallies and meetings nationwide.
July 7th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Good conversation. Although I was an initial supporter of UP, I felt alienated as much at my own anger and helplessness and thinking UP really didn’t get into issues.
I offer several thoughts:
>In fact Western Civilization has been an oligarch since the Roman Empire. Wealth and Power has always been concentrated at the top 1%.
>Perhaps the Age of the Internet will finally be able overcome this situation.
>Back in the day when I was going to school, we still talked about personal happiness, liberation and fulfillment as ideals. This changed in the 80’s. Even though the Constitution still says life liberty & pursuit of happiness, beginning in the 80’s the emphasis was getting a “business education”. As a result we have a whole generation of ethical morons who have no interest in life except as it can be “seized.”
>Liberal Arts doesn’t give skills but it does give a much broader humane, outlook on life. Now we have a generation of wealthy people who constantly feel insecure about their life, job, kids, cars, other people.
>During the 60’s, the growing fear was the split between arts and science but today the problem is the split between humanity and civilization.
>Robert Harrington wrote a book many years ago about “The Other America”, shining a light on rural poverty. Today, we are the other America impoverished within even as we are bled dry by our corporate governors.
>Pay equity will not achieve happiness but it is a good start.
>Even as we blame others for our problems we have to understand how we are part of the problem. Even as we demand health care, we need to demand a personal commitment in our own health care.
>Most education is a waste of time. You are taught for the most part by an inbred scholastic, perpetual motion machine. Teaching to tests is antithetical to the skills need to solve life’s problems.
>I say you because I dropped out of four colleges but learned accounting, history, math and welding. Then when I became a consultant I took accounting. Then when I need to learn something else I buy a book or Google it because I learned to think out of the box by some very creative teachers.
>Schools are only boot camps. Problem is they militarize life. Teaching you to win or lose not be happy. Even though music greatly aids the study of math we call it extraneous. How ironic when music and math are both expressions of the same cosmos.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
The question is raised whether the so called professionals, can still be considered as elite workers. We need to examine this question within the existing socio-economic system and social relations. Therefore, we can not look at his question in abstracting from the historical development of the institutions of socio-economic system we live in.
This issue has been around for a long time. More than 150 years ago Marx wrote: “The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honoured and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage labourers.”
What we are concerned here, is wage labor, employees working under an employment contract, whether they may be professionals, skilled laborers, or manual laborers, is a secondary issue. Capitalism is a dynamic system. In response to its crisis in 1970’ (declining profit rates, strength of working class, etc.), the system went through changes, along with development of new technologies. Professionals employed as wage workers increased substantially.
This issue can be examined within two spheres, at macro level (in the general economy) and micro (at firm, corporation, work place) level. However, these two spheres are completely interconnected and should not be considered in isolation from each other.
Under capitalism, the labor power (capacity to labor) is sold in the market as any other commodity. It does not make any difference if this labor power is belong to a so called professional worker or manual worker. It is subject to market fluctuations as any other commodity. Given the present freedom of mobility of capital across the globe to exploit labor, there exists a large reserve army of unemployed available for any types of labor. This puts in a precarious position of any type of worker.
At the firm (corporation) level, does the professional worker have more autonomy, more control on their own labor than a manual worker ? The answer might have been somewhat yes in the past but the differences are fast disappearing. Whether it is a professional worker or manual worker, the same social relation exists between the worker and capital in the firm. By signing the employment contract, the employee gives up her freedom, put herself under the command of the employer. In new industries, e.g., software development, scientific research, services, etc., capital is asserting its control on the labor process as was done in old manufacturing industries in the beginning of 20th century. Taylorism is still alive in these companies, separation of conceptual labor from execution, dividing the production into its small components, deskilling, reducing replacement cost of workers, etc. The fate of professional workers in today’s research factories can be the same as the craftsmen first employed in the manufacturing factories at the beginning of the 20th century.
July 8th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
I share some of Pamela’s concerns, and, in fact, I think that’s why I haven’t been more bought in to UP’s work. I am a teacher in a low-income school district, so while I am comfortably (and at the moment, securely) middle class, my students are much less privileged. We (meaning the faculty of my school) sell education as a way out of poverty for those who want it (some really don’t – they see the wealthier segments of American society as cannibals and have no desire to join their ranks) but I am less and less certain I am being honest when I tell my students this is an option. And it makes me pretty uncomfortable when we tell our kids and their families that we want them to go to college because we want “more” for them, as if their parents’ honest hard work is somehow less. I’m not altogether sure where the middle class “line” is and where I start joining my students in the belief that some amounts of money are more than any individual human has a right to wield.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
I think this is a very important and difficult discussion and I can only report from my own field-I am a PhD anthropologist and an adjunct professor of anthropology and sociology at various colleges in the NE. I am also involved with the formation of a new organization-New Faculty Majority: The National Coalition for Adjunct and Contingent Equity (see our website by search for that name)-that is trying to deal seriously with the low wage and low or no benefit position of one class of educated people—adjunct and contingent faculty—who now are the majority faculty who teach at institutions of higher education. In this effort we face interesting and difficult challenges in regard to “regular” and tenure or tenure track faculty who are not in any way generally superior in their job qualifications to us but who also face real threats to their own hard won positions. So, at the moment I am only writing to express sympathy and solidarity with all those who are dealing with similar political, ethical, and practical problems.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:00 am
These days, having education beyond high school is no guarantee that you’ll have a job. In fact, if you have huge student loan debt, you could conceivably be worse off than a person who has the exact same circumstances (minus post-high school education.)
I personally have never looked down on people who didn’t go to college, and I have known many who ended up making more money than me, and in higher-ranking jobs than mine. However, I know that I can’t speak for everyone.
I do think that we need to make an effort to include everyone whose job does not involve making decisions about layoffs, benefits, salaries, and hiring, in our movement. Until those of us who are NOT making these crucial decisions get a voice in them, we all suffer, no matter how many years we went to school.
July 13th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
It’s rather irrelevant really, because as this debate about “Professional” being some code word for elitist rages on, the clowns in Washington are pursuing tried and failed policies that will crush any chances of an economic recovery, so there will be even fewer jobs left. You’re dreaming if you think for asecond Obama and his gang will listen to any of you. They WANT more people out of work and/or scared so they can push their leftist agenda! Economic security means freedom from Government and that’s what is anathema for the leftists.
(BTW…if you think Government running health care is a good idea, just look at how good a job they did with housing projects in the inner cities…)
July 17th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
For crying out loud people, get back on track. UP is committed to the dignity, respect, and ethical treatment of salary AND wage earners; the nature of one’s economic activity (CPA or Administrative Assistant) was never in question.
KABurke
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Diane,
I hope I am not too late. I read your email and the lady’s article. Thought I saved it, but I must have deleted it. We were on vacation when I read it, and have returned about a week ago. Now, I hope I can remember what she said (can’t remember her name – sorry).
I believe she was remarking how UP was basically for “professionals.” However, I have never thought of the point she brings up about her work was not thought of as being “professional.”
I believe we have to define the word “professional.” Is it people who only have a degree in a particular area or subject supposedly earning big money? Is it people who have worked hard in the area that they have been working for years, but don’t have a degree? Is it people who faithfully work at their jobs, know the task thoroughly, but yet get paid an unjust, unequal, pitiful, hard-to-get-by salary which no one is fighting against? Is it a person who, for whatever reason, works at the many service jobs (many companies would die without them), and must have several other jobs to make ends meet? Couldn’t “professional” also assert a value related to a work ethic as well as a level of interaction between people regardless of the task. “Student workers” are often asked to conduction themselves professionally.
After reading her article, I find that all of these would define a professional. She should not feel less because of not having a degree.
I am more ashamed of my degree in education because of the poor treatment that teachers have and continue to have heaped upon them. I have been in the field for over 30 years.
My partner’s nephew has a high school diploma, and is making about $30,000. In addition, he has a company vehicle. He is a pest control technician. As for me, I make $12,000 as an Instructional Aide (so much for a degree because Arizona doesn’t believe in putting money into its education systems across the state). It is not fair, but who is working for justice?
However, we both are professionals, but only society puts such an emphasis on a degree as if that makes one a better person. Thus the thought that one should have a better salary because of that certificate. It does not! In my experience, I wonder how these people (directors, supervisors, administrators, etc) got these jobs when they are inept in too many areas of importance – degreed or not degreed.
The root of the word professional is “to profess,” and it comes from two Latin words “pro” and “fateri.” Pro means before and fateri means to confess. So, we come before one another to confess that we are living (perhaps) what we have been called (vocation) to do, and we are not perfect beings. We learn as we live, but should be paid properly.
I think this is what I had also learned from Barbara’s book (Nickle and Dimed). So many of the people she worked side by side with were likely not degreed, but they performed their job professionally and with dignity. Yet, they were paid miserably while the companies made millions and billions.